The output-side test ran on the live seat. There is no shoulder at 123: the 120-139 bin holds three of ninety-six and is a TROUGH, and 17.7% of generations cross a cap PIPPA can never cross. The clip-as-boundary reading is dead, killed by the test that could have confirmed it. Corrects this document's own earlier read, which compared the tuned MEAN (88.5) to PIPPA's MEDIAN (67) and concluded 'comfortably inside the upper body'. Median to median it is 62 against 67. Mixing statistics across a comparison produced a more reassuring answer than the data supports. What the data shows instead is bimodality -- a mode at 20-39, a trough, a second mode astride PIPPA's centre, a tail to 505, against a base with no such shape. The tune changed rp length's SHAPE rather than its centre: roots whose length distributions do not overlap learned as distinct modes rather than blended into an average. And the skew is rp-ONLY, which localises it to the family the clipped root lives in and is the strongest support the turn-share mechanism gets from the output side. Consequence for pair generation: chosen/rejected sampled from a bimodal generator inherit the mixture, not a mean, and naive sampling over-draws the short mode. Also records that the degeneracy rate is NOT yet a usable baseline -- same arm, same seed, VOID flipped no->YES across a re-run because the 10% budget sits at the noise boundary. A guard whose trip point is at the noise floor produces disagreement between honest observers rather than silence. Replicates running.
12 KiB
ERP tune — DPO stage readiness
Written 2026-08-26 while run 2 (SFT, stock instruct base) finished. This is a readiness survey and a decision surface, not a plan. The plan needs the operator and brokkr-smithy-dev; what follows is what is on disk, what is missing, and what has to be decided before anyone writes a config.
Why there is a DPO stage at all
Run 2 is an SFT on google/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it — the official instruct
release, not an abliteration. Nothing in it attempted to remove refusals, so:
Run 2 will refuse at near-stock rates (~98-100/100 on the harmful-behaviors probe) and that is the design, not a regression. Run 1's 29 came from its abliterated base, which run 2 deliberately does not use.
Targeted DPO is the stage where refusals get pruned — on axes we choose, keeping the general-harm ones. That is the whole reason the stock base was picked over a third-party abliteration: it replaces "inherit a stranger's judgement about what to strip" with "strip what we decide to, deliberately." Trading one training stage for that control was the operator's call on 2026-08-25.
What is ready
| piece | state |
|---|---|
| Base | run 2's merged bf16 tune, /tank/erp-tune/serve/merged-run02 |
| SFT adapter | /tank/erp-tune/run-02/adapter/ — the DPO starting point |
| Compute | ana-ml2 GPU0, free once run 2's eval seat comes down |
| Harness | eitri-smithy/erp_sft_harness — corpus verification, encode cache, provenance, order manifest, resume. All reusable; none of it is SFT-specific except the loss |
| Prose preference data | two sets already on disk, unvetted: /mnt/smithy/datasets/raw/jondurbin__gutenberg-dpo-v0.1 and nbeerbower__gutenberg2-dpo |
| Reward judge | LitBench-RM Llama8B-CreativeWritingVerifier, irv-ml1 :8202/classify — on-demand, ~90 s to respin |
What is missing, in order of how much it will hurt
1. ⭐⭐⭐ Preference data for the refusal axes — the long pole
Nothing on disk targets this. The Gutenberg sets are prose-quality
preferences; they say nothing about refusal behaviour. Refusal-axis pairs have
to be generated: prompt the SFT tune, collect the refusal as rejected, and
produce a chosen completion that engages.
Three sub-problems, none of them mechanical:
- Where does
chosencome from? A model that will write it, a human, or a template. Each has a different failure mode, and a templatedchosenteaches the template. - How many pairs, and how balanced? Too few and nothing moves; too many on one axis and it generalises past the axis.
- What is the held-out set? DPO can be evaluated by preference accuracy on held-out pairs, and that has to be split before generation, not after.
2. ⭐⭐⭐ The axis list itself — OPERATOR DECISION, blocks everything
Which refusals get pruned, and which are kept. Nobody should generate a single pair before this is written down, because the axis list is the data spec.
R19's track-2 map is the existing artifact that names candidate axes. The
domain-compliance probe scaffold at
scripts/training-probes/counted_classifier.py
measures the RIGHT axis — explicit fiction — as opposed to the
harmful_behaviors probe that run 1 measured, which was the wrong axis and is
why run 1's refusal number was never the number anyone wanted.
⚠ Measure the axis before pruning it. Run the domain-compliance probe against run 2 first: pruning an axis the tune already complies on is wasted work, and the pre-number is the only baseline that will ever exist.
3. ⭐⭐ A DPO trainer — not present
trl is not installed in /tank/erp-tune/venv. Two routes:
- Install
trl, useDPOTrainer. Fast, conventional, and drags a dependency into a venv whose torch/transformers/peft versions are load-bearing and known-good. ⚠ Pin and verify:warmup_ratio(playbook 4.2) is exactly what a version bump does to you. - Implement the DPO loss in the existing harness. More work, but keeps the corpus verification, encode cache, order manifest, provenance and resume that the SFT harness already has and TRL does not know about. The harness is not SFT-specific except for the loss function.
⚠ Whichever route, do the install AFTER a run finishes, never during one. A
dependency resolution that upgrades transformers under a live process can
break its save path, which is the most expensive moment to break.
4. ⭐ Provenance for a preference run
The manifest gains fields the SFT one has no concept of: preference-set sha, pair count, per-axis balance, beta, and the reference-model identity. Same rule as everything else — see playbook 4.3's audit table. A DPO run that does not record which axes it pruned is unauditable, and this stage is the one where that matters most.
⚠ Measured 2026-08-26 — a length artifact the DPO pairs would inherit
The run-2 gate found tuned rp turns at 88.5 / 90.9 words against the base's 137.1 / 145.4 — a 36% reduction, consistent across blocks. brokkr-smithy-dev hypothesised the mix was teaching PIPPA's product clip. The corpus side is now measured and it is confirmed, with a mechanism sharper than "PIPPA is in the mix":
root bot turns p50 p90 p99 max <=123 124-130
pippa 79,414 67 95 108 123 100.0% 0.00%
bluemoon 1,170 563 908 1432 1924 0.0% 0.00%
c2-logs-32k-llama3 23,704 234 394 686 2000 6.6% 1.44%
creative-writing-multiturn 8,621 204 485 858 1837 24.0% 2.16%
PIPPA's max is 123 exactly, 100% at or under it, 0.00% in the 124-130 band. That is a product clip (2023 Character.AI), not a length preference — every other root crosses its own p99 smoothly.
The exposure asymmetry is the finding:
root turn share word share mean len
pippa 70.3% 37.5% 67
c2-logs-32k-llama3 21.0% 42.5% 256
creative-writing-multiturn 7.6% 15.1% 251
bluemoon 1.0% 4.9% 601
PIPPA is 70.3% of bot TURNS but 37.5% of bot WORDS — and length is learned per turn, not per token. Each of those 79,414 turns is a separate demonstration of where a bot reply ends. By loss tokens PIPPA looks like a third of the dialogue signal; by end-of-turn demonstrations it is seven in ten, from a source that cannot exceed 123 words.
⚠ Generalises past PIPPA: a length-clipped root is over-represented in the length signal by exactly the ratio its clipping creates. The shorter the clip, the more turns per token of budget, the harder it teaches the clip. Check the turn-share/word-share split of every root before assuming a mix is balanced.
The output-side test ran. The clip hypothesis is FALSIFIED — and the truth is more interesting
Measured on the live tuned seat, n=96 rp generations (brokkr-smithy-dev, 2026-08-26). There is no shoulder at 123:
0-19 18 ██████████████████
20-39 22 ██████████████████████ <- MODE
40-59 5 █████ <- trough
60-79 15 ███████████████ <- PIPPA median 67
80-99 10 ██████████
100-119 9 █████████
120-139 3 ███ <- PIPPA CAP 123. Three. A trough.
140-159 5 █████
160-179 4 ████
300+ 3 ███ max 505
<=123 79/96 = 82.3% (PIPPA itself: 100.0%)
median 62 · mean 77.9 · p90 152 · p99 367
The clip-as-boundary reading is dead. Mass would pile under a learned wall; the 120-139 bin holds three of ninety-six and is a trough, and 17.7% of generations cross a cap PIPPA can never cross.
⚠ A correction to this document's earlier read. It compared the tuned mean (88.5) to PIPPA's median (67) and p90 (95) and concluded "central tendency, comfortably inside the upper body." Median to median it is 62 against 67 — at or slightly below PIPPA's centre. Mixing statistics across a comparison produced a more reassuring answer than the data supports; the 88.5 was a mean dragged up by the tail.
What the data shows instead: the distribution is BIMODAL. A mode at 20-39, a trough at 40-59, a second mode at 60-79 astride PIPPA's centre, then a long tail to 505. The base arm has no such shape (tuned mean/median ratio 1.45 and 1.23 against the base's 1.09 and 1.14).
So the tune did not change rp length so much as change its shape — replacing one symmetric distribution with a mixture. That is what you would expect from roots whose length distributions do not overlap (PIPPA 67, c2-logs 256, bluemoon 601) being learned as distinct modes rather than blended into an average.
⚠ And the skew is rp-ONLY. Story sits at mean/median 0.98 / 0.95 tuned against 0.98 / 1.00 base. The shape change appears exactly in the family the clipped root lives in — the strongest support the turn-share mechanism gets from the output side.
What this means for pair generation: chosen/rejected sampled from a
bimodal generator inherit the mixture, not a mean. Sampling naively will
over-draw from the dominant short mode. If length is not the axis being tuned,
control for it explicitly rather than assuming a representative sample.
⚠ The degeneracy rate is NOT yet a usable baseline
Same arm, same seed block, re-run:
scored 162/192 -> 163/192
degenerate 7 -> 11
truncated 23 -> 18
rp VOID no -> YES
Distance moved 0.003, well inside the 0.0125 floor, so the gate result is not threatened. But degeneracy straddles the 10% budget, so the same arm on the same seed VOIDs or does not depending on the run. A guard whose trip point sits at the noise boundary flips, and it produces disagreement between honest observers rather than silence — a distinct defect from a gate that cannot fail.
The honest statement is that the tuned arm's rp degeneracy is AT the budget,
not clearly over or under it. Replicates are being run to pin it. Do not build
DPO pairs on the single-sample figure — the degeneracy rate decides how much of
the tune's own output is usable as chosen, so it is load-bearing for pair
generation and much cheaper to pin now than to discover after pairs exist.
Why this belongs in the DPO prep and not just the gate record: preference
pairs generated from this tune inherit its length distribution in both
chosen and rejected. If short-rp is an artifact rather than a preference,
DPO on those pairs trains it in as an explicit objective rather than leaving it
as an incidental SFT bias. Settle the length question before generating pairs.
Scripts: /tank/erp-tune/pippa_clip.py, /tank/erp-tune/clip_share.py.
The decision that gates the rest
Which refusal axes are in scope, and which are explicitly kept?
Everything downstream — data generation, pair counts, held-out split, the probe that measures success — is a function of that list. It is not a technical call and it should not be made by whoever writes the config.
Pre-flight, when the time comes
Run training-throughput-playbook.md 4.8
before the window opens. Two items bite harder here than they did for SFT:
- cache key covers the change — a preference set is exactly the kind of auxiliary file whose path is stable while its content changes.
- an observed consequence beside every configured value — the axis list is a configured value, and its observed pair is the per-axis probe delta.