fix(gen-seat): AEON W4A4 was the defect — purged; mixed FP8-attn build is primary gen
Root cause of the multi-day degeneration hunt, operator-confirmed: the AEON NVFP4 W4A4 quant (sakamakismile/Qwen3.8-27B-AEON-ULTIMATE-UNCENSORED-NVFP4, full W4A4 incl. attention) went degenerate ~15-20% of generations in real multi-turn use and forced regenerates. MTP, prefix-caching, and the gateway all merely AMPLIFIED it, which is why MTP-off, APC-off, and the vLLM #51113 fix each 'helped' a synthetic probe without fixing it -- three plausible false root-causes, each passing one clean run then failing in real use. The fix was the WEIGHTS: the in-house JonathanColetti/Heretic mixed NVFP4+FP8 build (qwen38-27b-uncensored-nvfp4-mixed, FP8 attention not W4A4, same base, same MTP) is coherent through long multi-turn with MTP ON. W4A4 *attention* was the defect; FP8 attention is not. This commit: - GEN_MODEL -> the mixed FP8-attn build (primary gen until DavidAU 3.8 lands) - GEN_IMAGE pinned to vllm/vllm-openai:nightly-311b3513... (v0.27.2rc1.dev150, carries #51113; pinned by sha so it does not drift on the next pull) - AEON weights PURGED from /tank (no-good), safety-checked not-in-use first - playbook 3.8: the stochastic-W4A4-degeneration lesson + isolate-weights-early + do-not-declare-a-fix-from-one-probe (it validated three non-fixes) AEON is re-pullable from HF if ever needed, but the operator ruled it no-good.
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@@ -131,6 +131,41 @@ There is also a **modelopt-format-specific** version of this: vLLM 0.24 does not
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modelopt `exclude_modules` to the spec-decode *draft* model, which no checkpoint config can fix
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(needs a `sitecustomize` runtime patch). Using compressed-tensors avoids it entirely — §3.4.
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### 3.8 ⭐⭐ A bad W4A4 quant degenerates STOCHASTICALLY — and masquerades as everything else
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The single most expensive misdiagnosis this project has had. A **defective NVFP4
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W4A4 quant** (`sakamakismile/Qwen3.8-27B-AEON-ULTIMATE-UNCENSORED-NVFP4`, full
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W4A4 incl. attention) went degenerate **~15-20% of generations** in real
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multi-turn use — collapse, cross-turn content bleed, early-ending — forcing a
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regenerate. It was **purged 2026-08-17** as no-good.
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The reason it cost days: **every other layer AMPLIFIED it, so each looked like the
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cause in turn.** MTP made it worse (so MTP-off "fixed" a synthetic probe); prefix
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caching made it worse (so APC-off "fixed" another probe); the vLLM #51113 mamba
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fix made it "significantly better." Each partial-improvement produced a plausible
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false root-cause that passed a clean run and then failed in real use. The actual
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cause was the **weights**: swapping to the FP8-attention mixed build
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(`qwen38-27b-uncensored-nvfp4-mixed`, same base model, same MTP, same nightly, MTP
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ON) is **coherent**. W4A4 *attention* was the defect; FP8 attention is not.
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**Lessons, dearly bought:**
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1. **Stochastic degeneration (15-20%) is nearly invisible to a small synthetic
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probe.** A single 7-turn run passes ~4 times in 5. n=1 "clean" proves nothing;
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this class of bug needs many runs or the operator's real high-volume use. Do
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NOT declare a fix from one passing probe — it validated three non-fixes here.
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2. **Isolate the WEIGHTS early.** When a quant degenerates, swap to a *different
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quant of the same base* before chasing serving flags (MTP, prefix-caching,
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engine version). Had the AEON→mixed weight swap come first, the serving-flag
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rabbit holes (MTP, APC, SGLang, nightly) would have been unnecessary.
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3. **W4A4 on attention is high-risk for coherence, independent of the acceptance
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gate.** AEON passed every static gate — abliteration 4/4, surface 6/6, a 36k
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needle, 52% MTP acceptance — and was still stochastically broken in
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conversation. Prefer FP8 attention (the mixed recipe, §2) over full W4A4; if
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W4A4 attention is used, gate on *many* real multi-turn generations.
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Current primary gen: the mixed FP8-attention build on vLLM nightly with MTP,
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until the DavidAU Qwen3.8 lands.
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### 3.7 ⭐ A LOADED MTP head can still corrupt output — Qwen3.8 multi-turn
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§3.3 is about *losing* the head (0% acceptance, silent). This is the opposite and
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